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Fossil5
09-30-2014, 05:21 PM
I recently purchased a "98% rust free" 1962 Thunderbird Convertible with tonneau cover true barn find. Someone started the restoration process and this bird has been sitting totally dismantled for 12 years. I am in the process of re assembling and getting it ready for paint. It came with {no lie} 4 trailer loads of parts... 3 hoods 5 doors 3 complete interiors and 3 engines along with boxes and boxes of stainless etc., power steering pumps and every thing that would come from 2 parts cars. There was 15 coffee cans of hardware. Now the clincher...The only transmission was the cruise o matic completely disassembled and in 3 more boxes. I cant find a cruise o matic and dont know if all the parts are there for this one and it might not be cost effective to even try to have it rebuilt.... Greatly appreciate any info on possible updating to a C4 or C6

jopizz
09-30-2014, 05:26 PM
I would recommend a C6 over the C4 if you can't find a cruise-o-matic. However you will have to do some modifications to the trans mount. I believe the stock drive shaft will work but maybe someone else can chime in on that.

John

YellowRose
09-30-2014, 05:47 PM
Now that is a barn find and a half! If you have the Data Plate, with VIN # and data information, you might want to register it on the Tbird Registry, or see if it is already registered. John Rotella has dedicated himself to locating, and recording every remaining Tbird out there, crunched, parted out, being restored, or still on the streets, from 1955-2005. Here is the website. If you know the VIN # you can type it in and it will tell you if it has been registered in the past and what the registry number is.

http://www.tbirdregistry.com

Fossil5
09-30-2014, 07:15 PM
Thanks Jopizz for that info. I agree C6 would be better especially with the FE390. If anybody has done the swap they have the step by step and all the odd things I have to work through. One thing I wonder is there a year range or car model for the C6 that would be preferred due to the shift indicator etc.

jopizz
09-30-2014, 07:43 PM
I don't think the year of C6 really matters. Certainly the linkage will change depending on the model. Most 1966 Thunderbirds had C6's. You will also have to consider the different flywheel and starter that was used.

John

YellowRose
09-30-2014, 07:59 PM
In 1966 production runs the COM was installed in the early production units until mid-November. After that, the C6 was installed in all 1966 Flairbirds. So, if you look for a C6 out of a '66 Flairbird, and you don't want a COM, make sure the Build Date on the car Data Plate is an M for December or beyond that, and not an L for November. And check, if you can, underneath the car to make sure there is a C6 tranny in it and not something else... I can't imagine someone taking out a C6 and putting a COM in a '66, but you never know...:eek:

Fossil5
09-30-2014, 08:43 PM
thanks guys that's good information I did not know that about the 66 bird either so I'll be on the hunt for a good tranny and be sure to get the flywheel and starter also thanks again .
Ron

Yadkin
10-01-2014, 12:20 PM
If the car came with that COM, and you have all the parts, why not rebuild it? The factory repair manual has some diagrams, and there are exploded views of the assembly on the internet.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the COM has the "big dot, little dot" feature and the C4 C6 do not. So you will have a shifter linkage and display issue.

Fossil5
10-02-2014, 09:06 PM
I looked at the repair manual and I cant determine if all the parts are there or not... Bare in mind this tranny has been in pieces for the most part I guess of 12 years and lord knows whats not there. To make matters worse I am NO transmission man that is for sure. I am going to take this "basket case" to a tranny shop but I am expecting eyes glazed over and them to show me the door. The best I can hope for is a comment of no problem to put a C6 in place of it. You have a very valid point about the "big Dot little Dot" feature. That is one question I would ask to someone that had converted to a C6. what did they do to get it to line up ? If you have a link for the exploded view of the COM i would like to view it. Thanks again for your comments.
Ron

jopizz
10-02-2014, 09:22 PM
Here are a couple of exploded views. Not sure how much it is going to help. Also, here's a link to Dave Dare's transmission rebuild.
http://home.comcast.net/~simplyconnected/projects/Cruise-O-Matic/default.htm

John

Yadkin
10-03-2014, 09:22 AM
I would make lots of calls before going to a transmission shop. The COM is "old school" so you need to find someone who is knowledgeable in this early design. Check with your local small shops, then call others to gauge their reputation. The best guy I know here is in his 60's and works transmissions only part time out of a shop in his back yard!

Dan Leavens
10-03-2014, 11:19 PM
Steve I agree finding an " old school " tranny guy is hard to find. I like you,was able to luckily find one here in Calgary that only works a couple of days a week and repaired my COM that cost me a little instead of a lot :rolleyes:

Fossil5
10-13-2014, 01:34 AM
Thanks John for the link. I have located locally a COM and FE 390 combo out of a 1964 Thunderbird with 65000 miles. Do you see any issues with fit? Supposedly they did a swap with a 429 and C6 for hot rodding.
Ron

jopizz
10-13-2014, 11:05 AM
You shouldn't have any problems with the '64 motor and trans. There weren't any major changes made from '62 to '64. Some '62's came with a generator rather than an alternator. All '64's came with an alternator. That's the biggest difference in the years. '64 still used the older starter and flywheel.

John

Yadkin
10-13-2014, 03:32 PM
In mid '64 Ford changed the number of gear teeth on the flywheel. As I recall from 153 to 180. The starter has to be compatible.

Fossil5
10-13-2014, 07:04 PM
I will double check the number of teeth on the flywheel if deal goes through I still haven't heard back from the fellow I made the offer to. Another note I just wonder if the flywheel number of teeth are different why I couldn't use my flywheel and starter. Seems It should still bolt up to the crank okay. Do you agree

jopizz
10-13-2014, 08:11 PM
Yes, you can reuse your starter and flywheel. I've had a number of '64's and they all have had the old starter and 153 tooth flywheel. If they went to the later starter and flywheel sometime in '64 I've never seen one.

John

Fossil5
10-19-2014, 12:36 PM
Thanks for all the support on this. Well after a dozen phone conversations and scheduling conflicts I am actually going to the guys garage and picking this engine and trans up if it is what it is supposed to be.
Ron

Fossil5
12-02-2014, 03:00 PM
Okay guys. I have installed the engine and transmission and ready to fire it up. I seem to have a problem. I guess I need a tutorial on how the starter works. When I bolted the starter to the engine the starter drive teeth are mated with the flywheel teeth. ( Is this correct?). If so how does the drive work?... Does it spin the engine over and when it starts the drive then retracts away from the flywheel teeth?? I have 2 identical starters and when I bench test them they both spin with high RPMs but the drive doesnt retract. I want ed to get your feedback before I burn up the starter... Thanks in advance for any insight.
Ron

simplyconnected
12-02-2014, 04:48 PM
Ron, these are called 'Inertia' starters. They have NO reset spring. When the engine takes off, it actually kicks the starter's Bendix gear back (toward the nose).

Later starters used a fork and an electromagnet to operate the Bendix. They have a separate wire to energize the electromagnet (also called a solenoid). Your starter has only ONE electrical connection, and it comes from the starter relay (or starter solenoid) mounted just after your battery. - Dave

Fossil5
12-02-2014, 05:50 PM
Thank you Dave for the information. I really appreciate the quick response. I couldn't see how it would work otherwise but I was just so unsure of myself I needed to pass it by someone in the know. Thank you so much, sincerely Ron