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bobby59galaxie
01-22-2013, 08:07 PM
Hello Everyone,
my name is bobby and I have a 1959 ford galaxie.
I recently devoloped a lung problem and cant be in hot
humid temp. so my wife bought me a vintage aire kit for
my car so I could start using it again.
My car is all original with 332 engine the kit we bought was
soposed to have all the parts needed but I cant find a water
pump pulley to make it work. I have looked everywhere.
the main problem is it needs to be 3.44 inches in depth to
align with crankshaft on bottom. any advice on what to do
I would Appreciate is so very much I just want to drive my car again bobby

jopizz
01-23-2013, 01:54 AM
It looks like you will have to find one that fits a 58 or 59 full size Ford with a 332/352. A Thunderbird pulley is a different size and part number. If someone here can't help you try Love Fords or one of the other Galaxie sites.

John

simplyconnected
01-23-2013, 03:20 AM
Welcome to Squarebirds.org, Bobby. I'm trying to understand your request.
Are you going from a double-sheave to a triple-sheave pulley? You didn't mention the diameter you need, either.

Did you try Marche pulleys?

Don't stop looking because Chevy used many of the same pulleys. - Dave

KULTULZ
01-23-2013, 07:36 AM
Hey Dave!

Just cruising thru and read this. I am away from the house and don't have access to the 49/59 MPC you so graciously supplied.

The Basic PN is 8509 if anyone can look it up and give him the Service PN. It should make for an easier search... ;)

simplyconnected
01-23-2013, 11:24 AM
I see that in the part numbers but he has a custom setup. The compressor will be different and so will the mounting. I'm trying to figure whether he is going to a three-sheave pulley. If so, the only consideration is the existing belt centers.

Here's the MPC listing for Ford Cars w/3-sheave pulleys:

KULTULZ
01-23-2013, 12:47 PM
I was thinking just the compressor and mounting bracket would be updated (SANDEN) but the crank and WP pulley be OEM.

If it wasn't OEM, I would think the kit manufacturer would offer the pulley.

Maybe he can fill us in.

simplyconnected
01-23-2013, 01:31 PM
I'm sure Classic Air supplies Sanden compressors but I have yet to see them supply a pulley. Bobby may not need a sheave that goes to the crank. Simply run a belt off the empty top pulley and add adjustment.

DKheld
03-21-2013, 01:24 PM
I think you're right Dave - like the Tbird 352 A/C setup (which has been a royal pain to get figured out). Pic's would definitely help.

So here's a Galaxie 332 or 352 with factory A/C. The belt would run from the compressor (missing) around 2 idler pulleys (one missing) and down to the crank. Notice no adjustment slots on the compressor bracket so belt adjustment is done by moving the offset idler pulley.
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh300/Freightrain66/67F100/SDC10161.jpg

But on the factory Tbird 352 the compressor holes are slotted to move the compressor and adjust the belt - maybe that's the way the Vintage kit would work? The Tbird only has a belt from the water pump to the compressor. The water pump is driven by 2 other belts going to the crank and genny - but not to the A/C compressor.

Vintage Air catalog didn't show a Surefit system for the Galaxie so I guess you have a generic system.
Maybe what you need is like Dave mentioned and what is on the Tbird. It's a COAE-8509-A pulley for the water pump. If you do use this pulley you will probably have to get a new spacer for the fan. The end of the pulley is bigger than the end of the waterpump. I bought my spacer from Sumit but it's made by flex fan.

Those pulleys are a bit hard to find and usually expensive - Carl Heller(partsetal) here on the forum might have a good used one. If you're close to Charlotte NC I could loan you mine and you can see if it works - otherwise I can get some measurements off my pulley. Just finished figuring out how the belts will work and still use my P/S pump on my car - had to use a 63 Galaxie P/S dished pulley. I'm thinking the aftermarket system on the Galaxie would be the same as the factory system on the Tbird - just a guess though.

This is an aftermarket A/C bracket on my car but at least it shows what the water pump pulley looks like.
http://media11.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20111114/123323.jpg

Eric

Joe Johnston
03-21-2013, 01:39 PM
I may have an extra pulley that is against the fan spacer in the second picture posted by DKheld. I am only going from memory and will be home to measue and take pictures in 2 weeks. If any one is interested in the measurements let me know and I will gladly check and post. J

KULTULZ
04-17-2013, 05:45 PM
my name is bobby and I have a 1959 ford galaxie.
I recently devoloped a lung problem and cant be in hot
humid temp. so my wife bought me a vintage aire kit for
my car so I could start using it again.

My car is all original with 332 engine the kit we bought was
soposed to have all the parts needed but I cant find a water
pump pulley to make it work. I have looked everywhere.
the main problem is it needs to be 3.44 inches in depth to
align with crankshaft on bottom. any advice on what to do

I would Appreciate is so very much I just want to drive my car again bobby

Can you post what kit(s) you bought and just what Vintage Air promised? I see no complete kit offered. You must piece together a complete install. They do offer complete changeovers for some GM cars.

Similiar system here- http://www.oldairproducts.com/catalog/ford/ford-c-1_31000000_120132058_31000009.html

Nothing 59 FORD specific.

Their compressor mounting bracket- http://www.oldairproducts.com/catalog/ford-brackets/40-7273l/bracket-p-3551.html

I am thinking you will have to find the original FEAD (Front Engine Accessory Drive) from an OEM AC 59 FORD, unless you can adapt the kit listed below-

Here is a SANDEN compressor mounting kit.

http://www.vintageair.com/Instructions2013/901104.pdf

A buddy of mine bought a kit but it was only the evaporator and case for inside the car (57 FORD). The engine is a 4.6L LINC 32V so nothing else is needed other than hoses.

KULTULZ
04-17-2013, 05:54 PM
I think you're right Dave - like the Tbird 352 A/C setup (which has been a royal pain to get figured out). Pic's would definitely help.

So here's a Galaxie 332 or 352 with factory A/C. The belt would run from the compressor (missing) around 2 idler pulleys (one missing) and down to the crank. Notice no adjustment slots on the compressor bracket so belt adjustment is done by moving the offset idler pulley.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh300/Freightrain66/67F100/SDC10161.jpg


Eric

Eric,

Is the engine shown (59 FORD FE) yours? It has some later upgrades, an ALT adj bracket and a THOMPSON PS pump.

The idler pulleys, are they both fixed or is one adjustable?

Usually, on these older setups, the drive belt(s) was routed as you described as the AC belt had to be tensioned very tightly and this routing would keep side pressure off the WP bearing.

Is your BIRD install complete?

KULTULZ
04-22-2013, 06:07 AM
This may help someone doing these conversions-

http://www.cvfracing.com/ford-fe-pulleys-s/42.htm

KULTULZ
04-22-2013, 09:55 AM
Is the engine shown (59 FORD FE) yours? It has some later upgrades, an ALT adj bracket and a THOMPSON PS pump.

The idler pulleys, are they both fixed or is one adjustable?

Usually, on these older setups, the drive belt(s) was routed as you described as the AC belt had to be tensioned very tightly and this routing would keep side pressure off the WP bearing.


The more I look @ the photo, I believe the engine is a 65/ .

It even has a thermostat housing in lieu of a surge tank and notice the vacuum advance canister.

DKheld
04-22-2013, 11:20 AM
Gary - sorry - somehow I missed the reply.

No - not mine - snagged from the web and just listed the info given about the pic.

I have a that A/C bracket - it's the first one I bought and was going to use until I realized it interfered with the expansion tank. When I bought the bracket it only came with one idler pulley which is adjustable. It's hard to tell from that pic but the bolt comes in from the back into the idler pulley housing so I believe they are both adjustable. You're probably right on the year - I see that it also has a high mount Alternator.

DANG IT - No - my install isn't done yet but thanks for asking.

Doing an alternator conversion at the same time. Was hoping to have a simple parts list put together for the group for an easy bolt on Alternator conversion but that hasn't worked out. The adjustable bracket I bought works great for mounting but doesn't allow enough room for adjustment (with the original adjusting bracket). Tried 3G, 6G, and other Motorcraft alts but all too big. Looks like there is a lot of room there but - between the battery tray, block, and lower A-Arm it's tight. May wind up making a bracket. For now I cut a keyway in a dual V belt Ford alternator pulley and installed it on my generator. The generator dual V belt pulley for an A/C car is hard to find and pretty expensive (one on ebay now - just the pulley - for over $200). I'm sure Carl could do a lot better but the generator is temporary - still plan on the conversion so didn't want to sink a bunch of money it something I'm not going to use. I did get all the belts pulleys and fan spacer configured for A/C - working fine so far.

Those pulleys on the web site look nice. They do have a 3 groove water pump pulley but all the grooves are the same diameter - probably wouldn't matter (the A/C groove on the factory pulley is larger in diameter and wider)
I wonder if their 2 groove alternator pulley has a key way - probably like the one I bought and does not. Couple of hours with a hack saw and file and it can - :D.
Don't see a deep dished PS pulley either - the one shown is flat like original without A/C. They might be able to find what is needed though.

Eric

KULTULZ
04-22-2013, 03:16 PM
Why not use a 1G ALT? They can be pumped up to give all the AMPS you need and it would look more OEM on the conversion.

Those aluminum pulleys are designed for the later FE. I just showed them for info (maybe they will duplicate the early OEM pulleys?). You can either try and find the OEM setup or go to the later setups. Depends on how original you want to keep the engine appearance.

DKheld
04-22-2013, 04:03 PM
The 1G is what I settled on (old style case - new internal fan style was bigger). Even so when you install the dual belt pulley on the 1G there is less than 1/4 inch clearance between the back of the Alternator and front edge of the block. Plus the output on the back of the Alternator is high up and comes close to the block when you try to adjust the belt tension. A shorter belt puts the case too close to the block for the original adjuster bracket to work and the Alternator fan scrapes the bracket. Would work with a shorter belt and an angled bracket. Problem with that is the original bracket is also angled at the top to miss the the timing pointer. Ideally it needs an adjuster bracket that is sort of S shaped. You can find just about any bracket these days as long as you know what it fits but when you say you want an S shaped bracket it gets interesting - mostly the next question is "what's it fit". Hot Rod shops are a little more understanding.

I was/am going for OEM look for sure and as many OEM parts as possible. Then the rear main seal went bad on the engine so I'll be changing it all soon. Found a rebuilt 352 for less than half of what I could rebuild mine for so went with it. The new engine will have chrome valve covers and no road draft tube but otherwise a pretty stock look. All the accessories will be transferred.

Seriously considering the PowerGEN Alternator in the Generator case. No bracket changes - bolt it on to the original brackets and done. A bit expensive but may be worth it in the end.

That link was helpful - no problem - just didn't have exactly what I wanted.

Eric

KULTULZ
04-23-2013, 01:59 AM
There is a special rear mounting bracket made for an ALT upgrade on an older FE block that doesn't have the ALT mounting bolt hole. Have you seen one or have you found it already?

Changeover ALT brackets (OEM take-offs) are available from CRITES also if you have trouble finding a matched set.

There are also kits available to up the AMPS on a 1G.

I can E-MAIL you any info and then if you are a member, post it for others.

simplyconnected
04-23-2013, 04:25 AM
A PowerGen OR a 1G will not support an electric fan. After you get all the fabrication done, the PowerGen is a GM 1-wire that is weak on output for a whole lot of money.

These alternators come in different capacities that are in stone. Rebuild sites are saying they do 'batch rebuilding' which means you may purchase a high output alt, only to find that it doesn't perform as stated. Reason being is because when they get all the old ones in, someone tears them all down. When they rebuild, they install all the same parts regardless of what is written on the case.

The only practical solution is to get an electric fan and alt SET off of a bone yard car. That way you KNOW they match. Then fabricate your brackets. It's not that difficult. If you can't weld, send me a drawing and I'll do it for you. I am using a 1990 power steering pump and a 200? Ford alt that Ray got down in Texas, on our 292 Y-block. I'm also using the Ford electric fan he sent. Hold the parts in place and take measurements to the surrounding water pump and block bolts. Hot Rodders simply use their imagination and their skills to come up with amazingly simple ideas. Sometimes a little trial and error works as well. - Dave

KULTULZ
04-23-2013, 09:12 AM
Dave,

A SERIES 1G ALT can very easily be upgraded with specialized rebuilding. I do not buy from AUTOZONE (except for a quick and cheap service repair- customer request).

http://alternatorparts.com/ford_alt_repair_upgrade_kits.htm

I agree on the PowerGen and one wires, but I do not wish to get into a shouting match with someone. Let the owner decide.

Much less, the 1G makes the retro-fit look OEM and period correct (to me anyways).

DKheld
04-23-2013, 09:50 AM
Yeah - I agree - 90 amps for $400 is definitely on the steep side but that is an easy way to add 60 amps - not cheap - but easy. PowerGEN even has one that has a generator warning lamp terminal now.

Seems there should be an electric fan that would operate well under the 90 amp range. My '79 MG had dual electric fans and a whimpy 43 amp Lucas alternator - but not going with an electric fan - trying to stay closer to original look so not really an issue for my build.

It's a combination of mounting bracket, adjuster bracket and lack of space. Looks like there is a lot of room down low but there is just not. One problem you can't avoid is that the alternator all has to be in a certain small area for the dual v belts to align properly on the pulley (front to back) miss the block, A-Arm and battery holder but still have some adjustment room (side to side).

It would probably be easier to use something like a 360/390 truck bracket. Move it all up high as in the other pic but that doesn't stay with the original look and as Gary mentions not all the holes are present on the older 352 block to add the different brackets.

This winter I was hoping to find an easy bolt on bracket and alternator combo that I could post for the group. I had time to look but now that spring is here I'm ready to get mine back on the road so I'll shelf the idea for later. (was intended for those who can't weld but want the upgrade).

Welding? Oh yeah.
From this
http://media9.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20111106/155445.jpg

To this
http://media10.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20120212/205339.jpg
This is the 3rd MGA I've done - :D - but thanks for the offer anyway.

Eric

KULTULZ
04-23-2013, 10:00 AM
Yeah - I agree - 90 amps for $400 is definitely on the steep side but that is an easy way to add 60 amps - not cheap - but easy. PowerGEN even has one that has a generator warning lamp terminal now.

Seems there should be an electric fan that would operate well under the 90 amp range. My '79 MG had dual electric fans and a whimpy 43 amp Lucas alternator - but not going with an electric fan - trying to stay closer to original look so not really an issue for my build.

If one went with an electric fan (I am a big fan of this - but not correct for a restoration or period correct appearance) one would have to ascertain the AMP draw and allow for that (plus AMP draw for the rest of the electrical system).

It's a combination of mounting bracket, adjuster bracket and lack of space. Looks like there is a lot of room down low but there is just not. One problem you can't avoid is that the alternator all has to be in a certain small area for the dual v belts to align properly on the pulley (front to back) miss the block, A-Arm and battery holder but still have some adjustment room (side to side).

It would probably be easier to use something like a 360/390 truck bracket. Move it all up high as in the other pic but that doesn't stay with the original look and as Gary mentions not all the holes are present on the older 352 block to add the different brackets.

This winter I was hoping to find an easy bolt on bracket and alternator combo that I could post for the group. I had time to look but now that spring is here I'm ready to get mine back on the road so I'll shelf the idea for later. (was intended for those who can't weld but want the upgrade).

EricEric,

I can shoot you info on the early low mount and what you will need if desired.

There are also several versions of the 1G ALT. What is yours off of (any Stamping I.D. Nos.)?

DKheld
04-23-2013, 07:20 PM
If one went with an electric fan (I am a big fan of this - but not correct for a restoration or period correct appearance) one would have to ascertain the AMP draw and allow for that (plus AMP draw for the rest of the electrical system).


You know that's a good question. I never have checked it so I did. Ignition on, headlights on bright, brake lights on, interior light on, A/C blower fan on high, radio on. About the only thing electrical not on were the horns and lighter.

Dropshots has ben pretty lousy lately so if the pic doesn't show up it's 24.7 amps total draw.
http://media302.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20130423/172130.jpg

and this is the bracket and clearance
http://media300.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20130323/201054.jpg


Eric

jopizz
04-23-2013, 07:55 PM
Eric,

It looks like you are using the same generic adapter bracket for your alternator as I am. Mine seems to have a lot of flex to it and I have trouble keeping the belt tight. I'm using the long bracket from the water pump with an extension piece to the bottom hole on the alternator. How do you have yours mounted and do you have any trouble with it staying tight.

John

DKheld
04-23-2013, 08:45 PM
John,
It's an Arlington Products LLC bracket. Glad you mentioned the flex - had planned on getting it set then welding it together to eliminate the bolts just to make it look better. It came with 3/8 bolts to mount to the 7/16 holes of the original generator bracket. That's the first thing I modified - drilled the brackets out to 7/16 - seemed to make it a bit more stable.

I had also planned to install a small piece on the end of my adjuster bracket coming from the water pump mount so that it would clear the fan on the alternator better.

Couldn't tell you about the belts staying tight - it was all just a project so haven't run it with the bracket yet. Gary is sending me some info that may be a better solution then the universal bracket and I may be re-thinking all of it when I get back to the Alternator conversion this winter.

As a temporary solution I will be installing a new 40 amp generator to get me through the summer. No mods except a spacer and longer bolt on the back bracket because the 40 amp generator is a bit longer.

Eric

simplyconnected
04-23-2013, 09:22 PM
You know that's a good question. I never have checked it so I did. Ignition on, headlights on bright, brake lights on, interior light on, A/C blower fan on high, radio on. About the only thing electrical not on were the horns and lighter...Now, do all that for hours on end in a cruise at idle speed. That's what the Woodward Dream Cruise is. 1.5M people come from all over (including many beautiful cars and their owners from Canada). Motels require renting for the whole week, not just Saturday (the official cruise day) and Sunday. Woodward Avenue is four lanes on each side with a grassy boulevard in the middle (where all the cops hang out). People bring their own canopy and chairs, and set them up days in advance, lining the street on both sides for ten miles. Yes, it's crazy but free and a lot of fun. The pizza places will deliver to your car out in the middle of the road.

For folks coming in from Florida and California, they find a motel stay for a week is right up their alley.

CLICK HERE (http://www.woodwarddreamcruise.com/) to check out the Woodward Dream Cruise. It happens every year in the 3rd week(end) in Aug. Check out the gallery but this is mostly what you see:
http://www.woodwarddreamcruise.com/wp-content/gallery/2012-gallery/thumbs/thumbs_dc72a1fa090b4bf0bb135a9cc3554013-926372a03a0992fa159749a4262d4c71065954c5.jpg

Here are some pics I took last year CLICK HERE (http://home.comcast.net/~simplyconnected/WDC/)

jopizz
04-23-2013, 09:35 PM
That's a good point about the larger bolts. I'll have to try it. Seems like the weak point is the long bolt that goes through the top of the alternator. I'll have to figure out some sort of reinforcement for that. I would like to go with the C.R.A.P. bracket but it only works with a Ford alternator and I prefer the GM three wire one I have.

John

Joe Johnston
04-23-2013, 10:12 PM
This alternator was installed on a pre 63 engine without the alt mounting bolt hole. The flat stock connects to a water pump bolt which is in just view. Not pretty but it was solid and something similar to brace to an existing bolt may help add rigidity.



http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh455/sayjoejohnston/DSC09012.jpg (http://s547.photobucket.com/user/sayjoejohnston/media/DSC09012.jpg.html)

DKheld
04-23-2013, 10:33 PM
Yeah Dave - I see it. The 30A generator would need to operate at 80% capacity at idle to keep up with the demand - that's probably on the edge.

Add electronic ignition etc and your over the top which would drain the battery the whole time you were at idle.

The 40A will be a little better operating at about 60% (assuming the 24A system draw) - that may be something it could handle.

Eric

KULTULZ
04-24-2013, 06:56 AM
http://media300.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20130323/201054.jpg

http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh455/sayjoejohnston/DSC09012.jpg

:eek:

KULTULZ
04-24-2013, 07:29 AM
A SERIES 1G ALT can very easily be upgraded with specialized rebuilding.

http://alternatorparts.com/ford_alt_repair_upgrade_kits.htm

The 1G makes the retro-fit look OEM and period correct (to me anyways).

More specifically-


Part # HO-7003
$59.95 FORD ALTERNATOR 80 AMP UPGRADE KIT
Fits the standard 1G small case External Regulator alt. from 35 to 65 amps., single or double pulleys, used on Ford cars, light trucks, marine, industrial and other applications from 1965-1985.
Click Here for Kit Contents (http://alternatorparts.com/HO-7003_kit_contents.htm)
Part # HO-7013
$69.95 FORD ALTERNATOR 105-AMP UPGRADE KIT
Fits the standard 1G small case External Regulator alt. from 35 to 65 amps., single or double pulleys, used on Ford cars, light trucks, marine, industrial and other applications from 1965-1985.
Click Here for Kit Contents (http://alternatorparts.com/HO-7013_kit_contents.htm)

ADDED INFO-

Whenever an ALT amperage upgrade is performed, proper size wiring must be used to prevent circuit overheating/fire.