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davidmij
08-17-2012, 01:49 PM
Hey all, I need to find some pictures or info on my carb it's a 1967 390 4 barrel (FOMOCO c5af f). I'm trying to hook it up to my 59 birds linkage. Does anyone know where I might find some pictures of this?


thx, Dave J

DKheld
08-17-2012, 02:20 PM
Had these on my 'pooter for another reason but you can see most of the linkage. It's on a stock 1960 / 352 but hoping it will be about the same as the 390?

(the spring bracket is upside down in the second pic - if turned correctly the spring would be straight from front to back - and there is an extra black bracket under the schrader valve in the second pic for cruise control - OK- so mostly stock :D )

Eric

http://media9.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20120112/181353.jpg

http://media7.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20100520/202057.jpg

http://media8.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20100527/211928.jpg

KULTULZ
08-17-2012, 04:01 PM
Looks like someone has some bad and/or missing bell-crank shaft bushings.

http://media8.dropshots.com/photos/260234/20100527/211928.jpg

davidmij
08-17-2012, 06:07 PM
Thx gents!
Those help, I had the springs wrong, but I also wanted to see what the link that actually attaches to the carb is like. My 59 bird had a hole in the throttle lever shaft that the throttle linkage goes through (it has a little elbow).
The carb on the 67 390 out of an LTD that I replaced the 352 with has a "ball" type joint. I guess I need to find out if anyone sells a ball type joint for it. Any ideas?

thx, Dave J

KULTULZ
08-17-2012, 06:14 PM
The ball on the throttle lever is for an application with a throttle cable. Is the ball swagged to the lever? Can you provide a close-up photo?

davidmij
08-17-2012, 09:52 PM
Here it is Gary. You can see the end of my T-bird linkage. I just got back from the auto store and they don't have what I need. It almost looks as though I could saw off the ball and use the hole just longer from it. Really don't think that is a good idea though.

Does anyone know where I can buy a throttle cable. I was looking on summit but couldn't find it. I'll bet if I call them they'll know of a part that can convert it.

thx, Dave

KULTULZ
08-18-2012, 05:09 AM
Dave,

Unless you want to go with an earlier model carb or change the throttle lever shaft, I would cut the throttle stud off and drill the appropriate size hole to accept the linkage shaft.

davidmij
08-18-2012, 09:53 AM
Ah yes, I looked at some other pix of the same carb and it appears the hole just left of the ball stud is where the linkage goes on the 59 application. I'll cut off the ball and use that. Here's a pic of mine, and one without the ball.
Is the screw and plate without the spring used for an automatic? Now that I have a 4 speed can I just leave that unhooked to anything? Or should I remove it?

Thx again, Dave J

davidmij
08-18-2012, 10:04 AM
Oh! One more thing. In this picture, what is the hole with the black arrow? Mine has a little brass tube there. Can you tell me where it goes, if anywhere?
And the one with the red arrow went to a metal tube on the exhaust manifold on the 59 t-bird, but on the 67 LTD 390 it went to a tube and hose that I think was a vacuum line. I thought the red one was heat activated for the choke.

Thx, Dave

KULTULZ
08-18-2012, 10:21 AM
Ah yes, I looked at some other pix of the same carb and it appears the hole just left of the ball stud is where the linkage goes on the 59 application. I'll cut off the ball and use that. Here's a pic of mine, and one without the ball.
Is the screw and plate without the spring used for an automatic? Now that I have a 4 speed can I just leave that unhooked to anything? Or should I remove it?

Thx again, Dave J

If you mean the lever behind the main throttle lever, it is the kick-down linkage for the AT. You can either remove the throttle shaft (not recommended) and remove it or just let it flap.



Oh! One more thing. In this picture, what is the hole with the black arrow? Mine has a little brass tube there. Can you tell me where it goes, if anywhere?

And the one with the red arrow went to a metal tube on the exhaust manifold on the 59 t-bird, but on the 67 LTD 390 it went to a tube and hose that I think was a vacuum line. I thought the red one was heat activated for the choke.

Thx, Dave

The threaded inlet on the choke housing is for the suction of heated air from the exhaust manifold (drawn by engine vacuum).

The other (black) is the fresh air inlet for the choke stove. It draws filtered inlet air into the choke stove on the right exhaust manifold and then the heated air is drawn into the choke housing.

Tubing kits are available or you can go full electric choke and block off the vacuum inlet with a brass cap.

I hope I made this clear, if not question again.

I will try and find some good photos and forward them to Ray.

Oh.. Don't feel bad about cutting off the ball stud as screw-in replacements are available if anyone wants to used the carb on a later application.

davidmij
08-18-2012, 01:32 PM
Awesome Gary, thx a ton!
I understand the basic's of a carburetor but that's about it. There's a lot more to them than meets the eye. My wife's step-dad used to teach automotive stuff at a local community college and has volunteered to help me tune the car when I get it all together. I put the new gas tank in yesterday and fixed the float in the tank, it had a crack.

For some reason it won't start today. It fires, but as soon as I let off the key it dies, like the electric is just cut off when I let the key go? I have another starter solenoid from the old car - I think I'll replace that real quick. If that isn't it I'll crack my manual and start through the trouble shooting exercises.

regards, Dave J

YellowRose
08-18-2012, 05:58 PM
Gary sent me some pix to post for you. The first one is Choke operation for a 4100 carb. The second one is a Choke Housing Blockoff Cap- Brass 3-8 In 18 NPT-18. The third one is a 4100 Choke Mechanism. The last one is a pic of a '59 Tbird 352 engine bay with the chrome dress up kit in place.

Click on the image to zoom in to read it better.

http://www.squarebirds.org/SB/CHOKE-4100 Operation.jpg

scumdog
08-18-2012, 06:39 PM
For some reason it won't start today. It fires, but as soon as I let off the key it dies, like the electric is just cut off when I let the key go? I have another starter solenoid from the old car - I think I'll replace that real quick. If that isn't it I'll crack my manual and start through the trouble shooting exercises.

regards, Dave J

That sound like your resistor system in 'crook' as we say in NZ.

In mosts sytems involving a ballast-resistor (or similar, like the resistor wire such as many Thunderbird have) the resistor is by passed when the motor is cranking over and the ignition key is twisted right over, this give a full 12 volts to the coil.

However once the motor burst into life and you release the key the ignition system gets its (reduced) electrical current through the resistor.


So if there is a problem with the resistor or it's wiring the motor wil then die at that stage.

It might be worth checking this before you rush into swapping solenoids over etc.

KULTULZ
08-19-2012, 03:19 AM
The last one is a pic of a '59 Tbird 352 engine bay with the chrome dress up kit in place.

Thanx Ray!

Actually, the dress-up photo is to show the heat source tube for the choke. Best I have for an FE.

The block-off cap is to be used if one goes to an electric choke and needs to block the resultant vacuum leak.

davidmij
08-19-2012, 10:01 AM
Thx everybody, I appreciate the explanation and help.
So here's a little further explanation on the electrical. When I put 1967 390 in the car I also used the alternator. I changed out the voltage regulator too and wired it according to an article about a guy who did the same on a 67 ford falcon. When I first tried starting the car it did the same thing it's doing now (just fired and then died as soon as I let off the key). I saw another wiring diagram on line that showed a wire running from the (I) ignition side of the solenoid to the coil +. As soon as I added that wire it fired right up and ran fine. So, with that, it seems kind of strange that the same thing is happening again just a day later. Here's the schematic from FordForums web site, it's the diagram just below the picture of the alternator, it's labeled "group 22".
http://www.fordforums.com/f644/66-t-bird-help-160131/

Scumdog, where would the resistor be? Is it in the voltage regulator?

thx, Dave J

davidmij
08-19-2012, 05:14 PM
A quick update for anyone still reading. My resistor is "in crook". Those New Zealand boys know their stuff!

I went through the manual and did some of the troubleshooting. As Scumdog suggested the resistor is a complete "open". Manual says it should read 1.3 - 1.4 ohms.
Naturally they suggest replacing it. I'm gonna find one and try this asap. If it burns out (or whatever) again then I'll have to go from there.

thx, dave J

scumdog
08-20-2012, 12:55 AM
A quick update for anyone still reading. My resistor is "in crook". Those New Zealand boys know their stuff!

I went through the manual and did some of the troubleshooting. As Scumdog suggested the resistor is a complete "open". Manual says it should read 1.3 - 1.4 ohms.
Naturally they suggest replacing it. I'm gonna find one and try this asap. If it burns out (or whatever) again then I'll have to go from there.

thx, dave J

Oops, sorry Dave, I put you crook - it should by "is crook" - my typo mistake.

In NZ anything not well or not correct can be described as 'crook' i.e. He's crook from drinking too many bourbons' or 'Daves resistor is crook' etc.

But glad you've found your problem, finger crossed it's one of those 'cheap fixes' you get from time-to-time - as opposed to any fix costing more than $10!!

davidmij
08-20-2012, 10:40 PM
Thx again Tom!
She isn't "crook" anymore, I put in the new resistor and she fired right up. I have some cheap straight flow exhaust on it that are old and rusted and it really rumbled the neighborhood. A 6 year neighbor kid road his bike by, stopped, and said, "fine runner". Made me smile.
If you like hunting, fishing, and Harleys you'd love it here in Northern New Mexico. It's pretty popular on all accounts. I see a herd of elk almost every morning on my way to work.
I imagine NZ is amazing though, always wanted to check it out.

Alrighty then. I gotta put the brakes back on, do some tuning, and I'll be close to finally going for a spin. Can't wait to run it through all 4 gears! Here's a recent picture without the hood on. Pie crust cheater slicks, a BB ford, and a 4 speed - life is good.

davidmij
08-22-2012, 10:46 AM
Ey yi yi, Well, I went home today and tried to start it up, but it acts like the battery is completely dead. I checked the head lights and they come on. So I put the volt meter on the battery and it shows 12.8 volts. Guess it's time to (once again) start troubleshooting per the manual.
I'm starting to think something is crook in my wiring.

Yadkin
08-22-2012, 11:31 AM
Love the firewood jack stands. :)

http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=6903&stc=1&d=1345516643

KULTULZ
08-23-2012, 07:03 PM
Thanx Ray!

Actually, the dress-up photo is to show the heat source tube for the choke. Best I have for an FE.

The block-off cap is to be used if one goes to an electric choke and needs to block the resultant vacuum leak.

Here is a better photo of an exhaust manifold choke stove. It is a 462 LINC but is almost similar in appearance and operation-

http://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb3/download/file.php?id=6027

The tube shown on the left is the fresh air inlet. It draws fresh air from the air cleaner or in some variations, there is actually a screen within the exhaust manifold stove casting (can be serviced).

The tube on the right draws heated air from the choke stove (via engine vacuum) to the choke housing. The insulation you see keeps from being burnt and is available for service.

I hope this photo makes the system more understandable.

scumdog
08-23-2012, 07:07 PM
The insulation you see keeps from being burnt and is available for service.

And to make sure the air is still plenty hot when it gets to the choke.

davidmij
08-23-2012, 09:21 PM
Thx gents, that looks like mine with the asbestos sleeve for insulation. I capped the fresh air intake. I actually found some old pictures here: https://picasaweb.google.com/101492851059660555641/My59SquareBird02?authkey=Gv1sRgCIzpxazQnbj8uAE

Still troubleshooting the electrical now. I've eliminated the starter relay. I had thought that was it because it doesn't even make a click. Next is the starter. I'm going to try to check some voltages there.

thx, Dave

davidmij
08-25-2012, 09:50 AM
Ah ha, I found a guy on line that said sometimes your starter will get stuck when it gets hot - try tapping it with a hammer. I did and it worked!
Anyway, put the brakes back together real quick and took her for a spin!
Now I need to do a lot of tuning, tweaking, and adjusting.

Dave