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skikemp
08-16-2012, 09:20 PM
Hey whats the best oil to use in my new 430?

jopizz
08-17-2012, 11:13 AM
You want something with a high zinc content. Quaker State Defy has probably the highest amount of the readily available oils.

John

KULTULZ
08-17-2012, 01:29 PM
The best for older engine types is (IMO)-

http://www.penngrade1.com/

But it is difficult to find (retailer reference on website).

Otherwise any good quality oil (10W-30) if engine is good or (10W-40) if engine is loose plus the recommended amount of ZDDP. HIGH MILEAGE oil is also made for loose engines (tight being fresh).

Dakota Boy
08-19-2012, 06:17 PM
As stated above; find a place that sells Brad Penn oil.

63-4drpost
08-23-2012, 10:54 AM
i started adding a can of the RED can STP. I can't beleive what they want for oil with ZDP.i hope I am not missing something here?
I have used the heavy duty diesel oil also. Just be sure you get the ZPD in it .

KULTULZ
08-23-2012, 11:42 AM
i started adding a can of the RED can STP. I can't beleive what they want for oil with ZDP.i hope I am not missing something here?

I have used the heavy duty diesel oil also. Just be sure you get the ZPD in it .

I read the STP site and saw to no reference of ZDDP.

Simply put, older engine tech needs ZDDP. It is not available in most current SAE oils as its use has been eliminated by EPA rulings.

ROTELLA T has also had its ZDDP content reduced to comply with new emission law (diesel particulate traps). It is no better now than any current SL/SM gasoline engine oil.

Regardless of cost, an older engine needs ZDDP. You can get it either blended into engine oil or buy an additive.

http://www.zddplus.com/

KULTULZ
08-23-2012, 12:16 PM
From another forum-

Re: Are new oils ruining our cars? Must Read! (http://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18359&start=270#p229092)

http://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb3/styles/prosilver/imageset/icon_post_target.gif (http://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=229092#p229092)by KULTULZ (http://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb3/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1626) Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:01 am



Just came across this info from a AMSOIL TECH SHEET-The American Petroleum Institute (API) and International Lubricants Standards Approval Committee (ILSAC), have mandated the reduction of phosphorus to extend catalytic converter life.

However, reducing the level of ZDDP can compromise protection to engine components, most notably in flat tappet camshafts.

Current API SM and ILSAC GF-4 specifications for gasoline engines have maximum and minimum phosphorus levels of 800 ppm and 600 ppm, respectively, for SAE 0W-20, SAE 5W-20, SAE 0W-30, SAE 5W-30 and SAE10W-30 motor oils.

All other gasoline SAE grades do not have a mandated phosphorus limit.I believe that they are just restricting the oils most commonly used in today's car technology.This is an old post and may be out of date/current tech. Just a mention that all weights of engine oils did not have to meet reduced ZDDP standards. SN is now the industry standard so the above may now be mute.

KULTULZ
08-24-2012, 05:39 AM
ROTELLA T has also had its ZDDP content reduced to comply with new emission law (diesel particulate traps). It is no better now than any current SL/SM gasoline engine oil.

Interesting Thread- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=206230

skikemp
08-29-2012, 12:17 AM
Thanks for all the info guys!!!

63-4drpost
09-04-2012, 09:56 AM
I am not going to get in on any oil usage arguments, just want to point out that STP has the fact that it does contain DDPP printed on the container. I personally think MOST of the flat tappet wear problem started with the use of inferior Chineese lifters. And that's all I am going to say about that.

KULTULZ
09-04-2012, 11:31 AM
Correct on the STP. I found a reference to it. While lifters are off-shore, many are (were) still produced here and showed the same symptoms. I have a Tech Sheet from Comp Cams and there is a plethora of info on the net.

I don't like to argue either. The info is there and it is one's choice as to what he does with his car.

Enough said... ;)

63-4drpost
09-04-2012, 04:50 PM
i had my own engine rebuilding shop for 20 years, and i could not tell any difference in what oil was used, just keep it changed regularly and almost any oil will give you good service.

Yadkin
10-16-2012, 06:47 PM
Interesting article here (http://www.allpar.com/old/oils.php):

The new oils have been tested, and passed more stringent testing than our engines are going to receive. Granted, after the fact, ZDDP, zinc and phosphorus have been touted as the only things between our engines and total disaster. Zinc and phosphorus were excellent anti*wear additives, and they are still available in diesel oils. But they have been replaced by other additives in SM oils. They have been tested in independent laboratories and the results analyzed. The new additives provide adequate anti-wear protection.

Then there is the question of mixing high zinc/phosphorus content oils with SM to give "necessary" protection. There is no guarantee that a quart or two of 'older' oils, SJ or SL or even a specially formulated high ZDDP-content oil, will homogenize with SM oils to produce the correct or desired level of zinc/phosphorus for older engines.

Finally, there is the question of additives. Reading the labels on oil additives in a local auto parts store yielded only one which specifically mentioned zinc. We cannot guarantee that it will properly blend with your SM motor oil, nor can we guarantee that it won't settle out of solution and just lie at the bottom of your oil pan. This would be even worse than knowing you are not properly protected; it would give you a false sense of security in thinking that you've covered all bases. It might not be so. The testing required for engine oil does not include testing with aftermarket additives or miracle-fixes.

simplyconnected
10-17-2012, 12:47 AM
Steve, with all due respect, your article is from 2006 and it fails in a few areas.

"Have any of the oil companies or auto builders tested specifically for 40, 50, 60 year old engines? Of course not. But they have tested for, and are continuously testing, for cam and lifter wear. Is this to say that we will not suffer damage in those areas in the future? Again, of course not, but we have to go with the best information that we currently have. And frankly, SM oil, with reduced zinc and phosphorus has only been around for less than two years. No one has tested adequately, and under controlled conditions (to our knowledge), for excess wear with our older engines under SM oils. It would take a lot of driving for that much wear to occur in just a couple of years, and then there is no scientific evidence that the lack of zinc/phosphorus specifically was responsible for any damage that might have occured. Cams and lifters have been suffering in-engine damage for as long as they have been used in engines."

I have concrete proof that my flat tappet cam lobes were worn flat because of modern oil without ZDDP additive. This isn't a case where I heard from a buddy who heard from a ... No, this is ME! Since that happened I use 15W-40 Shell Rotella-T which is a "low ash" diesel OR gasoline engine oil. It also has over 1,000-PPM ZDDP, right off the shelf.

"If you still have reservations about using SM oils in older engines, there is a pretty safe alternative for you: diesel oil. At the present time, diesel oils do not have the same restrictions on zinc or phosphorus as gasoline engine oils." - I don't know if this statement is still true because they keep reformulating oils just about every year.

The article also fails to describe this new anti-wear wonder. They mention molybdenum, but can't say for sure without extensive testing whether it surpasses ZDDP's anti wear properties. So, I'm sticking close to Rotella for my flat tappet cams. - Dave

Yadkin
10-22-2012, 07:14 PM
Advance has the 10-30W for $14/ gallon. That's a great bargain, much cheaper than synthetic.

Yadkin
10-22-2012, 07:37 PM
This is **** confusing. Many say to have at least 1200ppm ZDDP for break-in. There's nothing on Shell's website to say what the actual content is. Why not just go full synthetic and be done with it? So what if it costs twice as much. Oil is cheaper than camshafts. :confused:

Yadkin
10-22-2012, 07:48 PM
Probably use this for break in. Supposed to be ".13 percent of zinc and .12 percent of phosphorus". http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/racing-oil/76

simplyconnected
10-23-2012, 08:32 AM
[QUOTE=Yadkin;70124]...Why not just go full synthetic and be done with it?..QUOTE]Our cars don't benefit from synthetic oils because they don't get extremely hot. Turbo charged and airplane engines get hot so they need synthetic to stop the oil from breaking down.

There is no more lubrication in synthetic than in good conventional oil. Some folks like using synthetic because it lasts longer between changes. I prefer changing my oil before regular scheduled maintenance intervals.

That little can of paper we call a filter bypasses most of the oil, especially when it's cold. When you change the oil, that's the REAL filtration. BTW, all oil goes through the pump FIRST, then the filter later. Dirt in the oil accelerates wear in the oil pump rotors. That's why I always replace oil pumps and drive shafts at every teardown and buildup. - Dave

Yadkin
10-23-2012, 11:24 AM
Dave, I've heard of replacing the oil pump driveshaft on small blocks because it tends to "round out" but never heard that about such an over-lubricated part like the pump. :confused:

So do you like the Rotella T? Its on sale now at Advance and I can stock up.

simplyconnected
10-24-2012, 02:07 AM
Steve, the pump may get plenty of oil BUT it also picks up all the little pieces of metal (and everything else that goes through the screen).

I had one on my 531W (a modern EFI w/roller cam) that had metal embeded in the rotors. I almost fell over when I saw it. This was a 'crate engine' from Ford Racing, after my daily abuse of many years. Your drive shaft is 1/4" but this one is 3/8", which is MUCH heavier. Believe me, a 1/4" shaft would have stopped immediately. Do NOT buy a cheap drive shaft.

For my Y-Block, I love Rotella-T. It works well and has plenty of zddp for my solid lifters & stock Ford cam. It's been two years since I overhauled the engine (http://home.comcast.net/~simplyconnected/projects/EngineParts/). Everything runs strong but I want to install a 4-bbl setup I got after the rebuild. I didn't get around to it this year because I'm swamped with other things to do. The car runs strong with the 292 2-bbl and COM. - Dave

Yadkin
10-24-2012, 08:54 AM
I think you meant "351W", probably the best engine Ford produced back in the day. I put 185K on my '72 with just a simple head rebuild and oil pan gasket, and it never burned or leaked oil. Of course I maintained it well by re-torquing the intake manifold per schedule and periodic carb rebuilds. It passed emissions testing with a "zero" and got great fuel economy.

Dakota Boy
10-26-2012, 06:36 PM
Jomar makes a non-bypass oil filter