View Full Version : ZDDP Oil Issues
02-10-2012, 07:30 PM
Dave was talking about using oil with ZDDP in it and I had just read something today about there being less ZDDP in oils that still have it, like Castrol GTX 20-50 which I use. It appears, that to meet fairly new federal standards, the ZDDP content in our oils that have it, have been cut in half. So we may not be getting the amount of ZDDP that our engines were getting and need. The next time you buy oil with ZDDP in it, take a look at the container and see how much zinc is in it now. Here is a website that talks about this. It, to me, was interesting reading. http://www.ttalk.info/Zddp.htm
02-10-2012, 07:49 PM
Careful, Cowboy... Here's a quote from that site:
"At this time, late October 2006, it appears that our old staple, Castrol,"
That was a LOOOOOng time ago.
I agree with redstangbob about checking the tank for old gas.
You can smell that distinctive varnish odor, before and after it burns. Better look under the trunk mat, pull the cover off, and look down your tank with a flashlight. Depending on how old, it could have left all kinds of varnish. And guess what... our new gasohol slowly breaks it up, sending pieces to your fuel pump.
You can stick a hose from your fuel pump into a gas can, just to err on the side of caution. This might be a good idea because it's time to change your rubber fuel line, anyway. - Dave
02-12-2012, 04:58 PM
Ray / Dave very good point about the reduction in zinc for these FE motors. We have a club up here that deals with a lot of environmental issues ( oddly enought got into the oil thing:rolleyes:) that wrote a white paper on the " lack of zinc " in todays oil and how it may affect the motors. I have found a local company here in Calgary Boss Lubricants that produces a specialty oil that is higher in zinc content and I buy it by the case for both of our TBirds.
02-12-2012, 05:07 PM
Oh, boy... Dano, you just opened a bucket of worms. Expect throngs of classic car owners to beat your door down. I don't know what you're paying but down here, they give up more than the cost of Mobil-1 for 'special classic car oil'.
Our EPA has drastically reduced zinc and phosphorus because it means death to catylitic converters, and they're trying to make them last as long as possible. (Even at the expense of engine wear. Well, it's not their engines...) - Dave
02-12-2012, 09:34 PM
More like a "geyser" of worms Dave.:p
I use Brad Penn.
My take on it..
1. 100% Made in the USA at a refinery in Bradford PA.
2. Reasonable price. $6.25 qt. (Local Motorcycle shop gets it for me - no shipping fee.)
3. Made in the USA
4. I like the smell of it.
5. Made in the USA
6. I used "Green Oil" Kendall GT1 as a kid. (Name is still around but not the same oil - Brad Penn is the same)
Any little thing I can do to beat the !@#$% Arabs out of a buck makes it worth the small difference in price to me. You KNOW where I got that attitude from.;)
02-13-2012, 12:35 AM
Back in 1910, Mom & Dad were made in Pennsylvania (it was America, even back then). Those were the days when Pennsylvania oil was the very best (from anthracite), and much less acetic than those wild Texas and Oklahoma oils.
BTW, French Groland Magazine is reporting that women are finally allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia...
CLICK HERE (http://home.comcast.net/~simplyconnected/Women_Are_Now_Allowed_To_Drive_In_Saudi_Arabia.wmv )
I think I'll try your oil next time in my (made in America) Y-Block. - Dave
02-13-2012, 02:53 AM
Come to think of it, maybe those Saudis have a point.;)
Don't let our wives see that statement or "we in a heap 'o trouble boy".:D
That is REALLY funny+!
Lots of good things come out of PA. Even the Steelers, from time to time.:rolleyes:
07-20-2012, 09:04 PM
My sister and brother-in-law own a motorcycle shop and I was there the other day with my 60 bird and an Spectro oil rep just happened to be there. He asked what oil I was using and recommended this oil for my bird.
I ordered a case to try. Cost was $55.80 a case or $4.65 a quart. That's dealer cost. I think it retails for like $6.75 a quart.
It might be an alternative to adding a ZDDP additive or other ZDDP oils mentioned.
I thought I'd pass this along for your info. It should be available at any motorcycle shop that handle Spectro oils or could be ordered by them for you.
07-21-2012, 03:31 AM
Yep! That's the right stuff. Thanks for the heads-up, Gary. I'd like to see a lot more of this around town, maybe it will bring the prices down a bit.
07-23-2012, 09:03 AM
Not much on "Qwacker" State Oil but maybe I'll have to re-consider.
Stolen from - ahem - I mean borrowed from......
The Octagon News – June 2012
- Page 6 -
More on Oil for Older Cars
…from the SoutheasternMG T Register
Quaker State Responds to Plight of Enthusiasts with a High Zinc Motor Oil. The Newest Addition to Quaker State's Product Line Designed for Auto Enthusiasts Needing High Levels of Zinc to Deal with Engine Wear Issues.
Toronto, ON - November 8, 2011 - Today, the makers of Quaker State motor oil announced the production of a new motor oil, Quaker State Defy. Featuring a high level of ZDDP, an anti-wear additive commonly referred to as zinc, Quaker State Defy addresses the needs of some automotive enthusiasts to combat friction and wear inside their engines.
The formulation of new Quaker State Defy contains a proprietary zinc booster that has dual attributes contributing to wear and oxidation control.
Quaker State Defy is intended to provide enthusiasts with a quality, brand name oil that will provide both the protection and performance required in high output, flat tappet engines. " We as an industry have seen the levels of zinc in motor oil consistently reduced in each successive gasoline engine specification implemented by ILSAC in the past few years, said Jeff Hsu, Quaker State Technology Specialist. This reduction of zinc is fine for drivers of newer vehicles, but is leaving classic car owners, enthusiasts and those with flat tappet cams and followers with fewer and fewer options in the motor oil category."
The proprietary low volatility ZDDP technology used in Quaker State Defy motor oil significantly reduces the amount of volatile phosphorus, while retaining its anti-wear protective behavior and antioxidant performance. Quaker State Defy has a ZDDP composition of 1200 ppm, a more than sufficient amount to stand up to the most aggressive engine profiles. "We have repeatedly heard enthusiasts and engine builders ask for more zinc or other solutions to their aggressive flat tappet cam issues, and those requests did not fall on deaf ears,” said Chris Hayek, Quaker State Global Brand Manager. “What we have been able to come up with is a zinc additive that is more effective and enables us to do more with the oil itself."
An additional benefit of the new, fully formulated Quaker State Defy motor oil is that it is capable of running a full manufacturer-recommended drain interval during engine break in and does not need to be drained after five hundred or a thousand miles, like some high zinc break in oils.
07-23-2012, 02:28 PM
Nice find, Eric! This is fantastic. Being hungry for more info, I looked into Defy and found even MORE benefits:
"Quaker State Defy is a synthetic blend motor oil that’s engineered to defy time by preventing up to 98% of future engine wear.* That means camshaft wear and bearing wear. Quaker State Defy contains increased zinc anti-wear agents that target high temperature and high-wear surfaces to help you get the most life out of your engine."
http://www.quakerstate.com/sites/quakerstate.com/files/Defy.pngThis is the best of many worlds... Full synthetics tend to leak, but this is a blend. I also LOVE that it won't break down with excessive heat and it defies wear.
07-23-2012, 03:45 PM
Local Autozone did not have it
B U T
I had to pick up an order at our Menards Home Center and they did!!! Couldn't believe it. $4.39/qt.
07-23-2012, 03:53 PM
I'll have to keep my eyes open for that Q/S Defy too....
-Jon in TX.
07-23-2012, 04:12 PM
No problem at all Dave - really like the "new posts" or "today's posts" button on the forum. I click on it often just to see if I can help with any other problems folks might be having even if it's not specific to the Thunderbird. That's how I came upon the oil info thread.
Read about the ZDDP reduction and saw the oil article I posted when reading about some MG stuff - thought it might help. Checked at Advance and O'Riley but they did not carry the Q.S. oil - however - in my area Wally World has it pretty cheap.
$15.57 for 5 qt jug - $3.12 per qt (just in case the link doesn't work)
There was a thread sometime back with a ppm chart and I tried finding the ppm info on the Quaker State web site but didn't have any luck on either. From everything I've read it sounds like 1200 ppm is about optimal for a stock engine - the article mentioned if it were a higher performance engine - more zddp was acceptable.
07-23-2012, 04:33 PM
WOW! That's a VERY good price, especially for syn-blend. I was using Rotella-T 15W-40 for my classics and lawn mower engines but I think I will give this a try.
Oh, and... my folks are from Pennsylvania. Lots of great things still come from PA... right, Ray?
08-15-2012, 09:13 PM
says it has gobs of Zinc in it, how the hell does anyone know for sure and why the heelll should anyone trust the oil companys???
08-15-2012, 10:43 PM
Funny you should mention, Henry. I called STP and tried to get zinc and phosphorous levels over the phone if they wouldn't put it in print. No way. They wouldn't even give me a hint.
They used to offer the red label and the blue label STPs. Then all of a sudden the red was gone! That was my favorite 'engine build' lube. I know they discontinued it because of the zinc levels. - Dave
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